Regardless of how strongly many people may argue otherwise, there is more than one path to God. Most witches and energy practitioners will tell you they're of this same belief, and I believe at the core of it most of them really can stand by this.
Maybe you're like me and witchcraft and astrology "saved" you in more ways than one. But after so many debates and arguments with anti-astrology, witch-fearing people, it's almost impossible to keep an open mind and an open heart to anyone outside the spiritual community. It becomes easier and easier to keep your lifestyle and your views and practices separate from these other groups of people.
So where does it end? How do we break this cycle of division? It starts with those conversations.
I’m sick of seeing narratives from the spiritual community that are as equally damaging as those attacking the spiritual community, so we’re gonna talk about how not to do that and actually create some progress in the world, yeah? :)
→ If you’ve felt alone and isolated on your spiritual path, there IS a safe and community for you. A place where other witches and practitioners are also just trying to learn their birth chart, share their tarot readings, and show off their full moon rituals.
A place where you not only learn real magick for your real life, but with other real people who get it too.
That Witch School is for you. Join us as a Full-Time Student on our private community platform today at https://www.thatwitchnextdoor.com/enroll
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YouTube: That Witch Next Door
Hey, do you want to come over and make a pot of tea? Bring your favorite crystals. You know we could talk about our birth charts, spirits, the latest house spells we've been doing. Welcome to the neighborhood. I'm that witch next door. ["witches and the Witches"]. Hello, hello, hello, my friend, welcome back to that witch podcast. What an episode I have for you today, something that I think very likely every single person who's listening to this has had happened to them. If you haven't been here before, hi, welcome to the show. I'm Dianne and I'm that witch next door and I'll be your host. Today. We are talking about what to say, how to respond in a situation where somebody is being judgmental of your beliefs. They might even just be being a full-blown naysayer, to put it kindly and softly, and it's hard to. It's hard to put it kindly, it's hard to put it softly. It is almost impossible not to get totally and completely wrapped up in your defense mechanisms when this happens. I think that the first thing I want to remind everybody is that, well, boy, look, we're just diving right in. We're not even really saying hello or anything, are we? Can you tell? I'm recording this on a Mercury's Day and you know what's funny is I've been wanting to record this for a couple of days. It's been like bursting out of me, so we're just heading straight into it. I want you to first remember that even the person coming at you and very often that's what it is, it's a person coming at you, they're not, they're very rarely approaching the situation with respect and consideration. To be honest, I want you to remember that even that person who is coming at you in the moment, they've had this happen to them too in some way, shape or form. Why do I know this? Why am I so sure of this? Because what they're doing in that moment is very, very deeply rooted in those wounds. First and foremost, we have to talk about this first. We'll talk about how you actually respond and what I recommend that you say and what I've said. But if we don't start here, what we're gonna do is we're just gonna automatically engage in some kind of very pointless and what will turn into a very mindless altercation where nobody feels better having left it and nothing really comes from the conversation. And so I want you to first step back and remember your beliefs. Who the fuck you are? All of the work that you've done, I want your soul, to kind of step outside of your body and look at their soul that's residing within their body. Very often it's so hard to get past that. And if you are a practitioner of astrology especially and many of the different branching and you might be coming to us from all kinds of different belief systems here, and I do think that two of the main connections really gluing all of us together, regardless of our backgrounds, regardless of our beliefs, is our interest and our work in astrology and witchcraft around here. And if you are a practitioner of those tools, then I want you to remember who you are and that astrology and witchcraft both give us that gift of divine perspective. They help us zoom out. Remember that we are souls having a human experience, that this is one of countless lifetimes that all of us are born into our lives, these innocent babies, and then each of us goes through a huge variety of experiences, a huge variety of events that shapes what you're seeing and interacting with in that moment. And, first of all, when you do this already, we're disarming ourselves and we're diffusing the situation. We're helping to put our defenses away, because the truth is is that your defenses are not needed. This person is not going to change your beliefs and, my friend, you are not going to change their beliefs either. I'm not talking about the situations and the conversations where someone comes to you respectfully and asks you for more information and wants to learn, and they're being open-minded and curious. That's different. That's a totally different conversation that has honestly nothing to do with what we're talking about today. I am talking about the people that show up with judgment, the people that show up ready to fucking fight over this, and you can take that fight all you want, but, like I said, I think that you'll leave empty-handed and I think that you won't feel any fucking better than you did at the beginning of that conversation. And so when we kind of disarm and diffuse right off of the bat, we can take a little breath, we can take a pause and we can remember who the fuck we are. If we remind ourselves that we're not going to change this other person's beliefs, they're not going to change ours. We can now proceed with grounded boundaries. So the way that you respond and approach this conversation really is going to differ person to person, conversation to conversation. But let me give you a couple of examples that have been brought to me and that I've also experienced myself and share with you a little bit about what I've advised and what I've also done myself so very recently. Hence the inspiration for this episode. Very recently I actually had a couple of these experiences brought to me by a friend of mine, by a client of mine, shout out to Christian Jen respectively. I just adore you both so much, just had to give you a shout out. But they both brought these unique experiences to me where a person made a judgmental or sassy or harsh comment about astrology. You know those things that go along the lines of like well, god, as long as you're not one of those astrology girls. One of the situations the person was told to stay away from astrology, stop putting energy into it. One of these situations was said from a very likely Christian background. The other one came from somebody who works in the spiritual industry and identifies as a psychic and a medium. And the reason I want to give you that information is because this is why I say and you've heard Ash and I both talk about this on Shadow Chats in the past this is why I say over and over and over again it's you cannot automatically categorize people the moment that you instantly go. Of course it was a Christian who said that. Of course it was. That is the exact same thing as a person saying oh God, please tell me you're not one of those astrology people. It's the exact same thing. It's the exact same thing. I don't know how many times that I have to fucking say this. It's the exact same thing. The reason we are starting here is because if you are a person who is also being judgmental and close-minded to other religions and other belief systems, you are opening yourself up for the same type of interaction. I don't want to talk today about all the reasons why we have every right to be angry at the Christian religion. I don't want to talk about that today. Of course, of course. Of course there are valid reasons. Of course there are valid, very real experiences that get a person to that point. But guess what, my friend, the uncomfy news of that on the flip side is so did that fucking person. They also reached the conclusion that they did about our spirituality, about our belief systems and our practices for the same reasons. Now we could co-tip for tat all day. Who's been the worst, who's done the most damage? It quite frankly, doesn't matter. This is why disarming the conversation, disarming your own anger and defense mechanisms at the beginning of the conversation, is so important because none of this bickering fucking matters, and I mean that. I don't mean that those experiences aren't real, I don't mean that they're invalid. I don't mean that people don't have a leg to stand on or a right to feel the way that they feel. Everyone gets to feel however the fuck they want to feel. You don't have to like anything. You don't have to dislike anything. You get to like astrology as much as you want and you get to dislike Christianity as much as you want. That's fine. That's fine. But if you are going to engage in an interaction and you are going to pass the same judgment without allowing for any room for growth, for progress, for a real conversation to take place, you're doing the same thing. Now, granted again some situations, the person on the other side that you're interacting with is most likely a super lost cause and it's not worth having an actual argument over. It's not. But if you really do care, if you really do care about the gifts and benefits and magic of astrology and witchcraft spreading throughout the world, if you really care about healing the witch wound, if you really care about astrology. Is this legitimate practice? We have to just be secure in that. That's what I mean when I say the argument doesn't matter. I'm not saying that the events that have happened and the persecution of witches doesn't matter. I'm not saying that at all. It's very heavy and it carries a lot of weight, and rightfully so. But I'm also witnessing the pendulum swinging so hard the opposite way every single day. It is not hard to say, it is not hard to find content on the internet, on social media, of folks in our industry, in our spiritual community, bashing the fuck out of Christianity and calling it healing their religious trauma. That ain't it, babe. That's not healing. You're just picking at the scab even more. You're ignoring your own wounds, focusing on the perpetrator and never, ever actually setting yourself free by being securely, securely fastened in your own belief system and your own conviction. Now I will be the first person to admit that I too get instantly defensive when these conversations occur. That's why I said at the very beginning it's almost impossible not to. It's honestly easier to just bank on yourself reacting that way in the first place and letting yourself kind of move through the emotion for a second. That way again, you can kind of pause and disarm and diffuse a little bit. I too get super, super defensive because you are talking to somebody who has poured hours, weeks, months, years into the study and practice of my beliefs. I didn't have this relationship with my beliefs before. I really fully embraced witchcraft and then astrology. I didn't anchor into any kind of beliefs. The debate of spirituality versus religion, you know that could be a whole different episode. I'm not here to promote or defend the integrity of any religion and I and especially when you get into separate sex and different churches and groups and of course again of course it's easy to go tit for tat and round and round and round. We go about all this. But let's use astrology for a second. Let's use our belief system for a second. Why does this exist? Why do these kinds of interactions exist? If you are a practiser of astrology, then you know we could find these exact experiences in the chart. This means that there is a role for this experience in our life. What is that? What is the point? Let's take it a step further. Why do multiple belief systems exist? Why do multiple religions exist? Maybe you've asked yourself these questions and maybe you haven't. It's really, really hard to ask yourself this in the moment, but this is extremely, extremely important Asking yourself this, giving an answer. That is why and how I'm able to pause. It's how and why I'm able to anchor into my own convictions and then proceed forward with grounded boundaries. Today's episode is brought to you by Sister Yaro, one of my favorite handmade clothing, home goods and accessories companies. Located in the heart of the Rocky Mountains. Created by one of my dear friends, owner and artist Madeline Greason, sister Yaro connects you to both earth and spirit by bringing you handmade, one-of-a-kind pieces inspired by nature and all things magic. Now, this autumn, sister Yaro's most recent collection is called the Earth Seasons Collection. It is a mixture of earrings, necklaces and accessories and more that primarily focus on beautiful mixed metals, crystals and other minerals, with an emphasis on simplistic, gorgeous, bohemian designs. Now, in addition to their newest collection, sister Yaro also offers a wide variety of products like sun catchers and mobiles. I have a couple in my home and they are a favorite of myself and my daughter. They cast little rainbows across the room. We've got home goods candles, crystals, clothing and more. And listeners of that witch podcast also get an exclusive discount on sisteryarocom. Simply use the code THATWITCH10 to receive 10% off your entire order. Go to sisteryarocom. Make sure you subscribe to their email newsletter so you never miss their newest collection, newest products or exclusive discounts and sales, and make sure you use code THATWITCH10 to receive 10% off your entire order at Sister Yaro. When I first started studying astrology, and no long before that, when I picked up my very, very first earliest book on witchcraft, I started reading words about our universe that I had felt on a somatic level since I was a child. It was such a surreal experience. I was reading my language. It was like somebody had it's, like I had finally discovered it. Somebody I learned, somebody was speaking it. I have, I have chills like running all over my body while I say this. It's like coming through so strong right now. Well, if someone was speaking my language, let's use that as an example for a second then what is the point of language itself? As human beings? Why do we have language? Why does it exist? And again, just like we talked about spiritual beliefs, why do so many of them exist? Why are there so many different languages? Why are there so many dialects within languages? Why, if you haven't noticed, pick up on the sarcasm here. If you haven't noticed, we're a little bit different than each other. Yes, we're connected by the beautiful, unseen, collective, subconscious connection. I agree. I fully, fully, whole body agree with that. I also believe that the complexity of a natal chart directly illustrates the complexity of each of us as humans, the complexity of our experiences and therefore the complexity of our existence itself. It is so easy, too easy, to genuinely believe that we have it figured all out. And when you're talking to somebody like that, they too believe they have it all figured out because they believe that our language takes away from the validity of their language. And again, we could go round and round all day why that sucks or that's wrong. Again, but it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Put that boundary up for yourself, especially if you are a person who goes to bat. We need people that go to bat. We need you. We need you to stick up for the underdog. We need you to stick up for yourself. We need you to speak up the truth when nobody else will. We need the people that will go to bat, but we need you to go to bat when it's going to do something, not just run you into the ground and just like them trying to convince you that what you're practicing is blasphemy or devil's work or wrong or unethical or whatever. Or, honestly, I would rather somebody say that the worst is when they say it's nonsense. I think that's why it was so easy to get defensive about the person who is within the spiritual industry that spoke about astrology that way, because, in my opinion, I think that the more you go into learning and working with the ethereal and spirit realms at least in my experience, it's done nothing but open my mind. It's the only reason I'm able to have this conversation and take the stance that I am, because I am able to zoom out and go okay, okay, your human is showing I get it. And not only is your human showing, your wounds are showing I get it. You have definitely felt judged in your life, or you were definitely not accepted, or your beliefs were definitely deemed invalid, or people tried to make you feel stupid or shitty for them. That person, that person saying those things, that's what's happened to them. I promise you. I promise that's what's happened to them. It doesn't just come from nowhere. Nothing just comes from nowhere. Our subconscious is a beautifully intricate place and, trust me, it's not about just coming from nowhere. It's a much more efficient place than that. We just are working on decoding it and understanding what goes on in the subconscious. My human comes out and shows too. It's easy for me to get defensive as well, of course. I want to just say oh well, clearly you've never studied it. You've, obviously, and you know what. Depending on the conversation sometimes, I'll venture to say that a little bit in a gentle way at first. Are you talking about your son sign? Are you just annoyed that you've seen people post about Mercury retrograde a lot? Is that what this is about? Sometimes I'll ask things like that, and my point in asking that is so that I can point out to them so you haven't studied this at all, so you don't actually know anything about this. Wouldn't that be the same thing as me trying to tell you how your heaven in hell works If I haven't read the Bible, if I haven't read the scripture, if I haven't studied and worked with people and developed this relationship with Jesus? Don't you think? And if you can have that conversation in a calm and logical way, you might, you might be able to get somebody at the very least to be like oh, you know what? Yeah, actually I guess I don't know that much about it. You're right, I would feel that way. I would feel that way if you were coming at me about my beliefs. That way, yeah, but I can't他的 is one of the most effective ways. But to genuinely engage in an argument and try to defend astrology, my friend. I think the biggest reason I wanted to do this episode is because astrology doesn't need you to do that. Witchcraft doesn't need you to do that. Your magic doesn't need to be defended or proved to anybody. You don't owe anyone, especially in that position, shit, not an explanation, not proof, not education, not resources. You don't owe them shit. And that's why I said entering the conversation with grounded boundaries, because it's really all about what you're comfortable with Some people. We're gonna be a little bit more protective of our beliefs and our experiences and it's going to be much safer for our energy to just shut that conversation down and depending on who that person is is how I would advise you to shut like with what energy to do that, with meaning how harsh you wanna be. There are just gonna be situations where it's gonna be a person like you might have an amazing relationship with your grandmother and your grandmother might just flat out not understand this and it might freak her out and it might scare her and it might go against some deeply fundamental programming and beliefs that she has. And you love her and you have this close relationship with her. You're not gonna pop off on her. In that case, of course, and depending on your own boundaries, it still might be a situation that calls for you to shut that conversation down immediately. And there's a way to do that with softness and gentleness, while leaving no room for that conversation to continue. And then again, depending on who that person is, you can get harsher with it if you need to. It depends. I think that one of the most liberating things that we can do is realize we have all these differences, we have all these complexities, and nuance exists for a reason. Yes, I understand the world through the interpretation of astrology. I can barely put into words how much it changed my life and transformed everything for me. I give such a fuck about myself. Now I have ambition and vision, passion. I care very, very deeply for myself and the world around me, and it wasn't like that before. I didn't give very many shits at all about myself or the world around me. I didn't care, I didn't have any passion. I didn't have any drive. I really didn't care deeply at all. Astrology and magic may be the language that you understand this world through and you have found community here. We are here. This neighborhood exists and keeps growing for a reason we're here for each other, there are like-minded people that get it and we do not hold the key to the only language. It's so important that we get this Christianity in and of itself and don't, don't, don't come at me with the historical roots of Christianity. I've done my own research. I'm aware and I'm still going to say this Christianity, catholicism, protestantism, if that's the right way to say it Muslim, judaism, buddhism, taoism, hinduism. I could try and go on and on until I embarrassed myself and I run out of names of belief systems and dogmas. Every single one of those is their own language and none of those languages, none of those belief systems did anything wrong. And before you get up in arms, the people yeah, there were a lot of people, a lot of fucking people who did a lot of wrong in the name of those belief systems. There are a lot of people who continue to, and I want to remind you that that happens and is currently happening in our belief system too. We don't want to believe that just as much as a Christian doesn't want to believe that. It's as uncomfy for us as it is for someone else. Of course this practice and system that's transformed your life it's finally helped so much just make sense. Of course you don't want to hear that it's been or being weaponized, being used to take advantage of people. There are people every single day who use astrology and psychic gifts, or at least the concept of them, that use witchcraft to harm and take advantage to steal from for their own personal gain. That happens every single day. The sooner we can just accept that, I think, the sooner you can set yourself free from all of this. I think, the sooner you can root down again in your conviction. That's right, this does exist and it exists everywhere. That doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, this is still a tool, this is a practice, this is a way of believing. I'm so proud that we live during a time where people care so much about other people and about things getting better that they get really passionate about having these conversations. I'm very grateful for that. I'm also watching it pour over into this place of I'm going to call it what it is into a place of bigotry Every single day. Again, it's not that hard to find if you go looking. Every day, I see people using not just their spiritual beliefs but their fucking political beliefs to put themselves on this pedestal. They and their group and their system hasn't done the exact same fucking thing, doesn't have the same bad apples and bad seeds in it. If we cannot start humanizing each other and recognizing the beautiful complexity of each of us and stop lumping everybody into these fucking categories and then labeling the categories wrong and incorrect and what I don't know, I don't know how the fuck, I don't know how the fuck you all expect to heal the witch woman then, because it ain't getting healed by going eye for an eye. We're not fighting fire with fire around here. You can do that all day long and if that's what you want to do, that's you. That's you. Again, I can securely detach from that. I can see your humanness in that and I can wish you well on your way. But if you really do deeply care about promoting and growing acceptance, then you have to practice it. Dude, that's probably where my biggest, biggest issue is coming from. I don't care if you're labeled yourself as a Christian or a witch, or a Democrat or Republican or I don't, I don't care. I feel like everybody is out there fucking preaching about accepting people for their differences and then excluding and talking shit about and demonizing whole entire groups of people. Fighting fire with fire is not fighting anything. It's certainly not healing anything. So here's how I recommend you respond. Here's how I respond. You don't have to get it, you don't have to understand this thing and it is deeply important to me and I have tangible progress that I can look back on and how much this has helped me in my life. So I'm not going to continue having this conversation because I'm not here to change your beliefs and I know that you're not here to change mine. That's a little tool, by the way, that I like. It's not exactly a kill-em-with-kindness, but kind of it's in the realm of killing someone with kindness. I really like using that strategy. It depends on the person, especially if you're arguing with a troll on the internet. They're not going to give a shit and they're going to be like I am here to change your mind. In which case, get off the internet, get out of that comment section. It's not worth it. But if this is a conversation you're having, that's actually a lot more challenging because it's with somebody that you care about or respect or are friends with or are connected to in one way or another. It could be your spouse or your partner. Those are the harder situations. It's easy to be defensive with fucking strangers. Who cares, and so if it's that kind of a person that you're talking to, that's probably my biggest recommended strategy I would give you, because I would look them dead in the eye. If eye contact doesn't make you want to peel your skin off and I would say I'm not here to change your beliefs, and I know you're not here to do that for me either. I know we have a more respectful relationship than that the response to that sentence will be greatly illuminating. Greatly illuminating. And then I would bow out because you're not there to change their mind. They are certainly not going to be able to change yours. She's not going anywhere for you. Your magic's not going anywhere for you. If this is a practice and a way of life that deeply resonates with you on a soul level and you are witnessing every day how much it's helping you, that's enough. It doesn't have to be more. It doesn't have to be more than that at all. Let them have their language. It exists for a reason. They understand their relationship with source and whatever label they have for source in the language that they have. That's the beauty of it all. And, again, I personally would recommend applying a lot of these concepts when it comes to social, political conversations. These days, too, that's even more nuanced, quite honestly. But one thing I believe, and I mean really believe deep down most people are good and they want good things and they care about kids and they care about their community. They care about people that are hurt, not wanting them to get hurt anymore. All of our backgrounds, all of our cultures, our ages, our experiences, where we come from, our income level, income level of our generations before us all of these things heavily contribute to our views and our beliefs and, yeah, each of us. Because of that, we're going to have a little bit of a unique perspective when it comes to seeing the pain in the world and how to go about healing. But if you could step outside for just a second and realize that that's what this other person is trying to do too, and then you can proceed from there, I think we could be opening ourselves up for some actual fucking productive conversation. Do not go out there and call a bunch of people closed-minded if you're being just as closed-minded. That's my big-ass Mercury truth bomb today. That's how I'm sending you into your weekend, I guess. So maybe you're going to encounter people in your life or on the internet you don't agree with and you don't get and you don't understand, and they certainly don't get and don't understand you. I promise that you don't have to bring yourself down for that one interaction, for that one person. You get to stay as secure in your morals and your ethics and your beliefs as is right for you. You get to draw the boundaries of safety that are necessary for you and that I'm always going to encourage, always, and I don't want you to be afraid to humanize the other person. It's hard. It's hard when we're this passionate and again I am grateful for it. I'm fucking grateful that we're part of this generation and this time period where people care this much. I'm glad it's hard. I don't know. I don't see a whole lot of productive communication going on about it and that's hard. It makes us feel a little hopeless about it all. But if it's one thing I'm able to kind of look past that part of the mess and see it really is how much people care and are just trying to help and we just can't agree on how that is. I don't have a solution for that Shit. I don't really have a solution for any of this, so just my suggestions of how to pull our heads out of our own asses and move through these conversations in a way that feels authentic for us and safe for us and ultimately promotes respect. I think that we don't focus enough on consideration for respect and I think it would be pretty damn healing and helpful if we tried focusing on that a little bit more on both sides. I would love to hear your experiences, your thoughts, your questions, any of your feedback around this. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of ends up being a part one of sorts. I really would love to hear what you've gone through, how you've responded. If you have those scenarios where you're like, yeah, but what about if this is the situation X, y and Z? I'd love to hear those. I'd love to talk about them on the show and elaborate more, because I think that this is really fundamentally important and it's not something that's going to go away. It's something we've all encountered and we're all going to encounter it again. So thank you. Thank you for your time today, thank you for your listening ear and hearing my truth today. I hope that in some way, this has been able to provide you with a little bit more information, maybe a little insight, maybe even a little bit of inspiration. But you have space here, okay, you have safe space here in this community. We're building it together. I just want to remind you of that before I leave you today. I'm so grateful for you and your energy that you bring here to this space. I hope that you have a beautiful weekend, get to recharge and refill your cup. I can't wait to see you on Monday for Monday Musings. Until then, my friend, make sure that you stay safe. I hope you get to have some fun and stay magical out there. If you get something valuable out of today's show, here's how you can help continue to grow our magic. First, you can head over to Apple or Spotify and leave a five-star rating in review. You can also share a shout-out on your social media page and make sure you tag me at that witchnextdoor. And, of course, you can just tell a friend that you think would enjoy the show and send them a link to the episode.